Home > culture, dating, fun, health, humor, Life, love, Man Law, Relationships > The Art of Charm: An Exclusive Interview with “The Art of Charm” and Pickup Podcast Host, Jordan Harbinger

The Art of Charm: An Exclusive Interview with “The Art of Charm” and Pickup Podcast Host, Jordan Harbinger


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Women have a great advantage in the relationship department because of one simple thing – they talk. They learn from each others experiences and mistakes and this is added to the general body of knowledge known as the “female” perspective. They might not agree with everything in this body of knowledge, but they have plenty of resources at their disposal to get advice on dating and getting what they want out of relationships. Men do not.

When a guy ask another guy for advice about women, the vast majority of the  conversations will usually go something like this:

Jordan Harbinger (left) and AJ, Host of PickUp Podcast and founders of "The Art of Charm"

Jason: Dude, I have a date with that Russian girl, Lena, tonight! I really like her, what do I do?

Adam: Just be yourself.

Jason: But where do I take her? What do I say? How do I act?

Adam: I don’t know dude. Just be yourself and if she’s the one for you then things will work out.

Jason: But…

Adam: What channel is the game on tonight?

If you want to learn how to drive a car, you go to Drivers Ed. So, when you want to learn how to improve your dating skills, you go to a Dating Coach. When I first downloaded PickUp Podcast and was introduced to AJ and Jordan Harbinger, I was looking for advice on a SPECIFIC situation. I did not recognize most of the names of the guys they interviewed but I did have an interest in “Body Language” and “Story Telling”.  Because men don’t talk or share this information as our female counterparts do, we become secluded on our islands of thought. The Podcast became an easy way of finding answers to all sorts of questions that guys think but are often too proud to ask.

After going through the first 5-10 PickUp Podcast and listening to what AJ and Jordan called the “Toolbox”, I was hooked. I quickly subscribed and for the next year or so during my 2-hour commute went through dozens of interviews that included tips by and for the common man. Many of these interviews and conversations formed the inspiration behind The Unbreakable Man Laws.

AJ and Jordan launched PickUp Podcast back in 2007 and it quickly grew from 30 listeners a week to 10,000 listeners a month. After taking a brief hiatus to finish up the New York Bar exam, Jordan took a job on Wall Street while AJ finished up his degree in Biology at Michigan. In no time at all, the PickUp Podcast blew up to 40,000 downloads each month and are now at 100,000 listeners each month. When they realized there was a solid market, AJ and Jordan formed The Art of Charm school . Since the inception, The Art of Charm school has been featured on NBC’s Today Show, Saturday Night Live Weekend Update, the NY Daily News, WABC Radio and a host of other news media.

"The Art of Charm" is the name for the program that AJ and Jordan Harbinger formed to teach men and women how to flirt, build attraction and succeed in business and personal relationships.

As with all of my interviews, I asked members of The Unbreakable Man Laws Fan group on Facebook if they had any questions for AJ and Jordan. Nick Bradshaw stepped up to the plate and a shout out and thanks goes to him for submitting these questions. Be sure to follow the contact links at the end of the interview to find out more information on The Art of Charm by dating coach Jordan Harbinger.

Question: Do you see the pickup game as more of a science or an art?

Jordan: It’s really a bit of both.  First, there’s definitely a science to what we’ve developed as a community and as a company.  Many, MANY men (and women, as evidenced by some of our fanmail from bisexual and lesbian show listeners and clients) have tried a LOT of techniques and systems, and reported their results.  The end product is definitely ‘scientific’ in nature, but artful in the delivery.  Since the scientific system can be tweaked and molded to fit each of us as individuals so that it’s congruent with who we are, I’d say after the foundations are in place, that which is communicated is very much an art.

A good way to look at it is like this: when building a house, first one must dig a proper foundation and build the frame.  There’re different designs for sure, but at the end of the day, EVERY house has these basics.  Once that is built, the parts that are displayed to the world are a reflection of the designer/architect.

Jordan Harbinger on his show "Game On" which runs every Friday from 8-10pm EST (5-7pm PST) on Sirius "Stars Too" (108) and XM (139) Radio.

Question:  Can ANY guy REALLY use the techniques that you’ve come across?

Jordan: I used to ask myself the same question all the time, even when I got good at this stuff.  I thought, even after ‘mastery’, that MAYBE we’d just invented a great system that works for US.  However, after teaching hundreds and hundreds of clients and receiving reports from thousands of listeners across the globe, it’s obvious that what we teach can work for anyone.

In fact, we’ve had clients as old as 62, as young as 16 (with parental consent).  Both men and women, gay and straight, people with social anxiety, mild autism, ADHD, and a whole gamut of other challenges.  Our system has delivered results to all of them.

Question: When is it okay to break the “pick up” rules?

Jordan: It’s funny.  That Dalai Lama actually said: “Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.” I thought that was quite unexpected from the Dalai Lama himself.

In order to know when it’s okay to break rules, you first have to master them, and understand WHY they exist in the first place.  The rules (or, the ‘what’) are training-wheels for new guys to use so that they avoid self-sabotage and common pitfalls during the early phases of their learning.

Learning the ‘why’ (the reason WHY a rule exists to begin with) is a very large part of what we teach here at The Art of Charm.  We want all of our students to be masters of social dynamics, and so we spend a lot of time explaining and illustrating the reasons behind everything our students see and experience.  This level of knowledge is what separates those who can reproduce a mechanical result versus those (such as AoC graduates) who can adapt their skillset to any situation, from the bedroom to the boardroom.

Question: How can a guy ensure that his game doesn’t land him in the Friend-Zone?

Jordan: The model that we use here at The Art of Charm is based on a “Map of Interaction”, which includes the ‘Attraction’, ‘Rapport’ and ‘Seduction’ phases of an interaction.

One of the most common mistakes guys make is failing to generate sufficient attraction with a girl and jumping straight into the rapport (connection) phase.  This is where emotions are shared and a real connection to other people is made.  However, without attraction in place, the guy falls squarely into the friend zone.

Question: How long do you wait before you call/text a girl after a successful Pick Up?

Jordan: Contrary to what we’ve ‘learned’  from movies and other sources, texting right away is often the best idea, and results in more solid follow-up and a higher likelihood of meeting up again.

After I meet a girl and get her number, I’ll text her a few hours later at the most.  That way, she still remembers me, even if she has 10 other guys chasing her that night.  Further, her emotional state is still pumped from her interaction with me, and this ensures she’ll save my number in her phone if we haven’t taken care of that already.  Of course, this greatly increases the likelihood that she’ll answer my texts and phone calls, which is directly related to the chances up us meeting up.

We’ve actually tested this scientifically with a few hundred women, and put it into a follow-up system that we’re releasing to our listeners.

Question:  After a successful Pick Up, do you stop running game on the girl? If no, then how long do you continue?

One of The Art of Charm instructors, Johnny Dzuback, giving a lesson.

Jordan: Here at The Art of Charm we don’t consider anything we do to be ‘running game’.  We don’t ‘turn this stuff off’ because it becomes a part of you.  Confident guys who have their sh!t together (feel free to change that to ‘stuff’ or whatever) don’t turn off their confidence -ever.  It’s just who they are.

Question:  How do you “run game” and “keep it real” at the same time?

Jordan: (see above)with us it’s all about authenticity.  We bring out the best part of everyone who walks through the door, and give them the tools to bring out the best in others.  There’s no difference between ‘running game’ and being confident and charismatic.

I believe that this is a ‘subtractive process’ and not an ‘additive process’.  What we DON’T do is give guys a bunch of material to help them put a veneer over their flaws.  Having a social mask just drives a wedge between people that makes it impossible to connect.

In other words, we remove guys’  insecurities and social issues, fake personas, etc, so that who they really are is what’s displayed in a confident and attractive manner which allows them to make strong, authentic connections with others.

Question: Is there a “golden rule” when it comes to Pick Up Artistry?

Jordan: Yes.  Always “Leave her better than you found her.”  I encourage people to extend that to every area of their lives.  You’ll be glad you did.

As soon as you finish reading this post, check out the free PickUp Podcast on iTunes – over 100 hours of interviews and tips for guys on dating, building rapport and attraction. Check out The Art of Charm School at www.theartofcharm.com .You can also follow AJ and Jordan on Twitter @PickUpPodcast, @TheArtOfCharm and be sure to check out their show on Sirius/XM Radio Game On every Friday 8-10pm EST (5-7pm PST) on “Stars Too” Sirius 108/XM 139.

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  1. Anonymous
    January 18, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Great post. Great questions, and Great Answers! Keep it up!

  2. Guess who?!
    January 26, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I’m SO glad this post was published. It can be used as evidence to let all the local bars of the creeps that are out there. You guys are disgusting and lame, and an insult to women. We are going to singlehandedly contact every bar in DC and rally women not to go to those bars. The fact that any man would subject themselves to such crap is evidence of why you have women trouble to begin with.

    • January 26, 2010 at 6:44 pm

      Please let me know if I can help you contact these bars. In fact, if you send me the address or phone number of the owners, I’ll be happy to speak with them about the blog.

    • Mike
      May 6, 2011 at 6:02 pm

      Did you even read the entire thing? It’s about learning how to become more confident, charismatic men with better skills.

      • Mike
        May 6, 2011 at 6:04 pm

        *social skills. Aka not creeps who wait for the drunk girls at the end of the night

    • anon
      June 5, 2013 at 12:36 am

      not to mention they spread disease and greed. how disgusting. if hes stairing at your lips or doesnt face you properly upon meeting you hes probly trying to get in your pants and leave you the next day. .. with a nasty disease.

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